Episode

031

Who Mourns for Adonais?

The Enterprise confronts its most powerful super-being so far. Can getting away be as simple as choosing to not believe in it? Find out as Mission Log asks, “Who Mourns for Adonais?”

 

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Discussion

  • Guest

    Trivia : Producer, Director, Actor and Long-time Trek fan
    Vic Mignogna decided to launch his fan made web series with a sequel to this episode. In “PILGRIM OF ETERNITY” , Original Trek actor Michael Forest reprises his role as Apollo. http://startrekcontinues.com/episodes.html

  • nathankc

    (facepalm) – for 25 years I’ve read this title as “Who Mourns for Adonis” (I guess I conflated the whole Greek costume thing) – makes a lot more sense now.

    • Easy mistake to make – I know I did too!

    • The Spock Unit

      Well, Shelley’s “Adonaïs” refers to the death of Greek god Adonis who gets killed by a boar. Adonis’ name allegedly comes from the Caanite word “Adon”. The Hebrew “Adonai” has the same root.

      The “s” in “Adonis” isn’t silent. It’s pronounced “ah-doh-nyess”

      Sorry, the whole “Adonais is the plural of Adonai” hebrew thing is nonsense.

  • Arvis Jaggamar

    – Glad I’m not the only one who said “What of Lazarus?” to himself when this episode title popped up.

    – Also, “adonai” doesn’t technically refer to the NAME of God, rather it’s the Hebrew term for “Lord” or “master”. Jewish scribes were taught to say “Adonai” out loud when reading “YHWH”, the Hebrew name of God, from the Torah. This is why “YHWH” is almost always translated “The LORD” in English Bibles, because of this tradition.
    ***Ok, you guys sort of mentioned this later on.

    – So I’m sure you know by now that I’ll step in for “the OT God” that gets a bad rap from folks. 😛
    Obviously not going to debate anything, but it’s important to note something: OT God made space and Earth and life and Eden and people. You know what he DIDN’T make during the Creation period? Worship. He made one rule for humans and a couple of tasks for them to carry out, but that was it. The standard in Eden was simply “you take care of these few things, respect me by not taking this one thing, and you can do whatever you want beyond this and enjoy living.” He never asked Adam or Eve to make sacrifices or to bow down or anything. They had total freedom. But as we all know, they willingly gave that freedom up.
    So, from a strictly Biblical viewpoint, Apollo in this is really nothing at all like OT God, since what he is offering is not freedom, but slavery. And… uh, I’ll just leave it at that for now.

    – “Most people can agree that Jesus was pretty groovy.”
    You mean people feel like Jesus is just alright with them? 😛
    One of my best friends in college was (and is) a staunch atheist, but she would always remind me that she liked Jesus and his morality.

    – I feel like I should point out that I really didn’t like Apollo or what he was trying to do. Dude was a huge jerk. I would not support a god like him.

    – I thought the giant space hand was actually really creepy and totally worked. I imagine being on the ship and suddenly seeing this giant hand coming at me. Would have freaked me the heck out.

    – I think you guys nailed the message. Again: I feel like “God” has gotten a bad rap from both critics and (especially) religion, but I really wish you guys didn’t feel so responsible for what Star Trek is trying to say. The show says what the show says, so I don’t think its fair that you guys should “get letters” simply for analyzing it and breaking it down.
    Honestly, if you interpret Apollo as a stand-in for “religion” rather than for “God”, then I completely agree with the message, too. I think John’s Thomas Jefferson quote was perfect: religion has promulgated “blindfolded fear” to the detriment of humanity, and nobody needs that. Not now, not ever. But what people DO need is real freedom, which for me would include freedom from not only fear, but also freedom from things like sickness and death as well.
    …and I am going to leave it at that and resist the urge to splatter my faith all over this message board.

    – Great podcast, as always. You guys are really doing the Lord’s work here. (hee hee hee)

    • Thank you immensely, Arvis – always appreciate your thoughtful notes even (especially) when we’re not in lockstep agreement. Makes the dialogue of our show that much more worthwhile.

      • Arvis Jaggamar

        Agreed. And thanks for responding. You guys are the best.

        I WISH we could agree about that Giant Space Hand, but oh well… (sorry, too much serious talk). I’m off to catch “The High Ground” now! Thanks again.

  • Low Mileage Pit Woofie

    Another good podcast, gentlemen, and my continued thanks for the entertainment (even if it does give me an excuse to wallow in writer’s block LOL).
    *Yes, I too liked Spock’s line to Uhura about her qualifications, not just because it was a gesture of respect that he didn’t have to logically provide to her, but because you know that because it was coming from Spock, he believed it, and it lacked any of the usual chauvinistic Uhura/Kirk exchanges that tend to start off with her hesitant admission of fear (“Captain, I’m- I’m-“) and his at-times condescending response (“Uhura, stop being such a girl and go do your job”).
    *At one point, when Apollo gets all thunderboltery with Palamas and she’s sprawled on the grass with her dress hiked up, she’s showing an amazing amount of thigh for contemporary TV. I’m surprised that they got away with it.
    *Yes, Kirk did appeal to Palamas’ sense of duty in reminding her of their peril and her responsibility to help them get out it, which is a positive, but it was otherwise swamped by the chauvinism typical of the day, even in dialogue not directed at her (he and others will refer to her not by name but as “the girl”, something I distinctly remember they do later in Lights of Zetar, which coincidentally featured another of Scotty’s ill-fated romances)
    *Yes, I too was one of those kids watching it who mistook Adonis for Adonais. So if there’s a club, sign me up…
    *Okay, I’m gonna be the one who brings up the N-word: Nipple. Where’s Michael Forest’s nipple? Does he not have one? Did the network censors demand it be covered up like navels, even for men? Was it always there but I never saw it?

    I am curious about one more thing, not necessarily about this episode: I know it’s like a running gag where you plead with the listeners not to send in hate mail/calls/etc, but have you actually received any? I know you do make an effort not to offend people or their beliefs or philosophies even when there’s ample opportunity (and provocation) to do so, but that doesn’t mean you won’t still invite negativity…

    • Well, the “hate mail” thing is a little bit of an exaggeration for comedic effect. BUT…
      We always hope that comments from listeners are delivered in the same spirit that the show is presented: with honest discussion and respectful disagreement when it comes up. We do get some emails that are really condescending or pedantic. We have opinions, our listeners have opinions – we’ve never presented ourselves as doing an encyclopedia of Star Trek nor as having the definitive final answers about an episode – it’s all up for discussion. We just want to make sure we can all disagree without being disagreeable.

  • Behind the scenes pic:

  • Gene C. Fedderly

    I have just come across this podcast and I am binging on it in honour of TOS 50th anniversary. It is simply brilliant. The discussion on religion here was great, and I admit that the line about the one god being sufficient always struck me as a real sour note. I’m surprised though that there was no mention of the final scene between Apollo and Carolyn in the storm where there appears to be an implied rape.

    • Welcome to the show, Gene! Glad you are enjoying it, and I appreciate the comments on this, one of my favorite episodes. The scene you describe between Apollo and Carolyn is one I need to watch again. I didn’t see it that way, but it’s certainly worth consideration.

      • Gene C. Fedderly

        You or Ken alluded to the James Blish treatment where she ends up pregnant at the end. I haven’t read it in well over thirty years, but perhaps that gives a clue. Anyway, that scene looked an awful lot like sexual assault to me.

  • Jason Williams

    I grow tired of the dated sexism references – every time a woman is featured on the show it seems her only purpose is to play foil to a man. The time travel episode with Joan Collins being the obvious exception.

    Ok Religion…deep breath. I rather liked the line about “we’re fine with just the one” but that comes from a Christian man so there’s that. I do object to John referring to my faith as “misguided” – as far as I can tell that wasn’t a quote from the show or from someone else’s notes. I’m not opposed to someone having the idea that faith is not for them – I called myself an agnostic in high school but using derogatory terms like that is a bit low.

    Anyways thanks for the podcast – still enjoying them.

  • Jason Williams

    This episode is featured in xmen apocalypse

  • Moshe Callen

    I absolutely disagree with Arthur C. Clarke. Technology is based on using physical laws. Magic inherently does not follow predictable rules. If magic did follow rules, it would be technology. It isn’t precisely because it doesn’t.

  • Smedley

    This is my favorite episode, it contains my favorite lines from all of Star Trek. McCoy, ‘I wish we hadn’t had to do this.’ Kirk, ‘Would it have hurt us I wonder, just to have gathered a few laurel leaves?’

    Followed closely by, “But what of Lazarus…..what of Lazarus?”